There's a couple of fights that are really confusing me. People have tried to explain but either I didnt take it in or being a chronic overthinker I couldnt be quite sure what they meant.
Ok first one, the 'double dip' boss in Enclave of Ankhet.
I know that you get the debuff when you go in the water and then the tank jumps to take it off you. But I'm still dieing almost every time. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Im not entirely sure why the ranged are running in and out, but that might have some effect on what Im doing. Possibly I'm screwing up my timing for when I go in. Its also possible as I have a slower mount that the first melee has run in and got the debuff off and then me arriving a second later causes some sort of issue. Just so damn frustrating that something so simple is screwing me over.
Second one. The 3rd(?) boss in Tartaric Depths (The Council).
It was explained to me that when I get the button for the lady boss I use that first. I'm not entirely sure when, I assume its when that flame thing with the beams appears. If I have a button for one of the others I am not sure when Im supposed to use it. I have to stand there like a noob until people start asking what the hold up is or they /w me. Does only one of us get a button or do 3 people get a button for each boss and we use them in sequence?
For EoA I have the guide on Cadrift at least explaining it to a point. She hasnt done a guide for TD yet (and possibly wont as she probably would of by now). There doesnt seem to be any guide for TD anywhere. I even tried Youtube but couldnt see a proper boss fight guide just peoples streams, in German mostly.
Boss mechanics
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Darkmystere
- Moderator
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:46 am
Re: Boss mechanics
Hello,
I didn't understand what you were talking about for the EoA boss so I'm answering only for the Council of Fate of TD.
When the fight starts, 3 random players get an extra-ability, each of them summoning 1 of the 3 bosses. The only time period during which you can use the extra-ability is when all of the "ghost" versions of the bosses are dead. So: kill the 3 "ghost" versions of the bosses > use 1 of the 3 abilities > kill the 1st boss > kill the 2 remaining "ghost" versions > use 1 of the 2 remaining abilities > kill the 2nd boss > kill the remaining "ghost" version > use the only extra-ability left > kill the last boss.
People are used to the order : Danazal > Boldoch > Pluezhal only because they are lazy: by killing Danazal first, the one-shot ability (if you don't stand in the moving white AOE you're dead) disappears for the rest of the fight so you don't have to focus about where to stand anymore (still don't forget to avoid the lazer), but you could perfectly summon another one first. Personally when I'm doing it, when the "ghosts" are dead, I spam click my ability to summon a boss if I have one, I don't care about the order.
One of the known bugs is that sometimes, 1 of the 3 "ghosts" is in the ground so the area looks cleaned but your ability to summon is still in grey.
If you could rephrase your issue with that EoA boss I would gladly help.
Regards,
Darkmystere@Brisesol
I didn't understand what you were talking about for the EoA boss so I'm answering only for the Council of Fate of TD.
When the fight starts, 3 random players get an extra-ability, each of them summoning 1 of the 3 bosses. The only time period during which you can use the extra-ability is when all of the "ghost" versions of the bosses are dead. So: kill the 3 "ghost" versions of the bosses > use 1 of the 3 abilities > kill the 1st boss > kill the 2 remaining "ghost" versions > use 1 of the 2 remaining abilities > kill the 2nd boss > kill the remaining "ghost" version > use the only extra-ability left > kill the last boss.
People are used to the order : Danazal > Boldoch > Pluezhal only because they are lazy: by killing Danazal first, the one-shot ability (if you don't stand in the moving white AOE you're dead) disappears for the rest of the fight so you don't have to focus about where to stand anymore (still don't forget to avoid the lazer), but you could perfectly summon another one first. Personally when I'm doing it, when the "ghosts" are dead, I spam click my ability to summon a boss if I have one, I don't care about the order.
One of the known bugs is that sometimes, 1 of the 3 "ghosts" is in the ground so the area looks cleaned but your ability to summon is still in grey.
If you could rephrase your issue with that EoA boss I would gladly help.
Regards,
Darkmystere@Brisesol
Mieux vaut chercher à gagner plus qu'à dépenser moins.
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Kaikordehth
- Telaran
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
Re: Boss mechanics
Ok great thanks. That makes more sense now.
The boss i mean in EoA is the 3rd one, Frezhak. There's a debuff which goes on the last person that goes in the water. The tank takes it first, then the melee takes it when they go in next then the tank does a jump to re enter the water to take it back off the melee. I often seem to be the second melee and cos I dont have jetpack yet I get there a moment later. Its possible the tank is focused on the boss and doesnt realise I need the debuff removed. Or possibly my timing is bad for some other reason. But anyway I almost always seem to enter the water and die.
I also notice the ranged and healers also run in and out as I'm approaching. Possible that's to help the healer by causing the debuff to not be on the tank as much. Again the tank might not realise I am also melee and think I'm a ranged that is going to run back out so he also doesnt realise he needs to jump again.
I dont really know how else to explain what's going on. I assume you know that fight as EoA is pretty much the only 5 man people do. Though I'm still a fairly new 70 so there's possibly others I havent done yet.
The boss i mean in EoA is the 3rd one, Frezhak. There's a debuff which goes on the last person that goes in the water. The tank takes it first, then the melee takes it when they go in next then the tank does a jump to re enter the water to take it back off the melee. I often seem to be the second melee and cos I dont have jetpack yet I get there a moment later. Its possible the tank is focused on the boss and doesnt realise I need the debuff removed. Or possibly my timing is bad for some other reason. But anyway I almost always seem to enter the water and die.
I also notice the ranged and healers also run in and out as I'm approaching. Possible that's to help the healer by causing the debuff to not be on the tank as much. Again the tank might not realise I am also melee and think I'm a ranged that is going to run back out so he also doesnt realise he needs to jump again.
I dont really know how else to explain what's going on. I assume you know that fight as EoA is pretty much the only 5 man people do. Though I'm still a fairly new 70 so there's possibly others I havent done yet.
Re: Boss mechanics
How the 3rd boss works (is supposed to be done):
The water deals damage to anyone in it.
The boss gets a shield which blocks interrupts.
Not interrupting spawns a set of ghosts.
When ghosts die, they drop an ice shard.
Picking up that shard allows you to place ice platforms to make your way across the water.
The boss is attackable until ca 80%? hp.The boss becomes immune 4 times at fixed hp %.
There are 4 fixed locations across the water you have to move him towards to make him attackable again.
Using a bubble should have it disappear.
How people exploit it since forever:
Not moving the boss while in the first ''immunity removal bubble'' has the bubble not disapear- so no reason to utilize the whole pond.
The water counts as an ability from the boss. It can be reflected- and you can mess with the water trigger.
The ghost spawns can be interrupted and fully mitigated (amazing how many fuck up even on that)
Ways to mitigate the water damage:
1) Damage reflect. The water is a lasting debuff that is cast onto you and lasts forever so one reflect does the trick.
(Bonus if you put squall on him. Then it can crit and the reflecter runs 800k dps for free)
2) Enter melee range within the first 3 seconds of the boss being active. Somehow, rushing in as Riftblade etc has the water debuff disappear for good if you reach his close proximity fast enough. Mount jump+ Vapor Rush can do the trick. (High risk- idealy you can heal through the water 100% yourself when entering it.)
3) One player leaving the water somehow cleanses the debuff. This can be done by jumping or running out.
(I think this is where it fails for you as people mindlessly hit spacebar once without knowing themselves wtf they are doing so they don't even notice that you are dotted adn then straight up letting you die. Relying on EoA exploiters to have situational awareness, teamplay and your back covered is a shot in the own foot.)
4) Literaly heal through it lol. (The default dungeon setup is a Tank who heals 4 dps. If people are ''farming'' EoA runes and can't even get such basics right or learn anything from the time playing, the runes won't give them any performance and it's all a massive waste of time)
As you can see, all the dipping hussle is pure lazy mode and exploiting. Not understanding/ being willing to learn exploits is totally fine.
Best you do not rely on exploits. In my time there were ALOT of fully geared ''elitists'' who completely fell apart on EoA just because their usual exploit didn't work out.
There were even people who thought the bosses could only be done that way or even were bugged and had to be cheesed when people spawned in and wrote 'bug' 0.00001 second after entering.
EoA has some of the more interesting encounter which allow for various setups and strategies. But here are people willing to skip gameplay for cheap stats.
Tldr: People who exploit EoA usually are terrible players just by their mindset to not play available content while complaining about the lack of content. Then fail on a dungeon's default mechanics while wanting T3.
Solution: Try to do EoA properly at least once and maybe not pug it. By all means, the EoA runes are a damage loss if you become a worse player spending hours upon hours doing literaly nothing while getting it. Notorious EoA dungeon spammer coincidently are the same ones wiping on basic gameplay demands.
Sure, SFP is a mess and EoA not polished-
but
seeing the 4 encounter as training ground rather than loot pinatas will get you a long way.
//Addition to TD:
The useable ability on your screen can be one of 3 colours. Red green blue. Red is the lady, green the goblin, blue the dude.
Those abilities are greyed out/ unuseable for the most part.
The boss order goes like this:
(Don't pull standing in the middle ornamented floor it has some hidden los properties and can mess up the mob's pathing. Simply jump while taunting the middle one. Some dashes can be launched into the air by the ornament. That ledge can be enough to have your base and a shade's base no have line of sight and the shades wander off to africa. Simply jump)
3 shades
- summon red
- kill true form (Lady, does a firestorm''Flamescape'' with 2 safe spots and a doom blast right afterwards (doomblast can be tank intercepted))
-> Doing her first means her shade has no chance to do more of those.
- 2 shades of the remaining
- summon blue
- kill a true form (goblin, whateverthefuck he did. I think he hits harder with more mobs around him or something)
- 1 shade of the remaining
- summon blue
- kill his true form (elf, does a chain lightning which can just be interrupted. Normal mode has him second due to it not being interruptable)
During the fight there can be a beacon in the middle which heals all enemies in slow pulses.
An obelisk appears on the backside which radiates damage and spawns creep
A flame imp with 2 Lazers appear which start to slowly rotate. (You can jump over, teleport through, use the Red lady's immunity mode or run with it)
The water deals damage to anyone in it.
The boss gets a shield which blocks interrupts.
Not interrupting spawns a set of ghosts.
When ghosts die, they drop an ice shard.
Picking up that shard allows you to place ice platforms to make your way across the water.
The boss is attackable until ca 80%? hp.The boss becomes immune 4 times at fixed hp %.
There are 4 fixed locations across the water you have to move him towards to make him attackable again.
Using a bubble should have it disappear.
How people exploit it since forever:
Not moving the boss while in the first ''immunity removal bubble'' has the bubble not disapear- so no reason to utilize the whole pond.
The water counts as an ability from the boss. It can be reflected- and you can mess with the water trigger.
The ghost spawns can be interrupted and fully mitigated (amazing how many fuck up even on that)
Ways to mitigate the water damage:
1) Damage reflect. The water is a lasting debuff that is cast onto you and lasts forever so one reflect does the trick.
(Bonus if you put squall on him. Then it can crit and the reflecter runs 800k dps for free)
2) Enter melee range within the first 3 seconds of the boss being active. Somehow, rushing in as Riftblade etc has the water debuff disappear for good if you reach his close proximity fast enough. Mount jump+ Vapor Rush can do the trick. (High risk- idealy you can heal through the water 100% yourself when entering it.)
3) One player leaving the water somehow cleanses the debuff. This can be done by jumping or running out.
(I think this is where it fails for you as people mindlessly hit spacebar once without knowing themselves wtf they are doing so they don't even notice that you are dotted adn then straight up letting you die. Relying on EoA exploiters to have situational awareness, teamplay and your back covered is a shot in the own foot.)
4) Literaly heal through it lol. (The default dungeon setup is a Tank who heals 4 dps. If people are ''farming'' EoA runes and can't even get such basics right or learn anything from the time playing, the runes won't give them any performance and it's all a massive waste of time)
As you can see, all the dipping hussle is pure lazy mode and exploiting. Not understanding/ being willing to learn exploits is totally fine.
Best you do not rely on exploits. In my time there were ALOT of fully geared ''elitists'' who completely fell apart on EoA just because their usual exploit didn't work out.
There were even people who thought the bosses could only be done that way or even were bugged and had to be cheesed when people spawned in and wrote 'bug' 0.00001 second after entering.
EoA has some of the more interesting encounter which allow for various setups and strategies. But here are people willing to skip gameplay for cheap stats.
Tldr: People who exploit EoA usually are terrible players just by their mindset to not play available content while complaining about the lack of content. Then fail on a dungeon's default mechanics while wanting T3.
Solution: Try to do EoA properly at least once and maybe not pug it. By all means, the EoA runes are a damage loss if you become a worse player spending hours upon hours doing literaly nothing while getting it. Notorious EoA dungeon spammer coincidently are the same ones wiping on basic gameplay demands.
Sure, SFP is a mess and EoA not polished-
but
seeing the 4 encounter as training ground rather than loot pinatas will get you a long way.
//Addition to TD:
The useable ability on your screen can be one of 3 colours. Red green blue. Red is the lady, green the goblin, blue the dude.
Those abilities are greyed out/ unuseable for the most part.
The boss order goes like this:
(Don't pull standing in the middle ornamented floor it has some hidden los properties and can mess up the mob's pathing. Simply jump while taunting the middle one. Some dashes can be launched into the air by the ornament. That ledge can be enough to have your base and a shade's base no have line of sight and the shades wander off to africa. Simply jump)
3 shades
- summon red
- kill true form (Lady, does a firestorm''Flamescape'' with 2 safe spots and a doom blast right afterwards (doomblast can be tank intercepted))
-> Doing her first means her shade has no chance to do more of those.
- 2 shades of the remaining
- summon blue
- kill a true form (goblin, whateverthefuck he did. I think he hits harder with more mobs around him or something)
- 1 shade of the remaining
- summon blue
- kill his true form (elf, does a chain lightning which can just be interrupted. Normal mode has him second due to it not being interruptable)
During the fight there can be a beacon in the middle which heals all enemies in slow pulses.
An obelisk appears on the backside which radiates damage and spawns creep
A flame imp with 2 Lazers appear which start to slowly rotate. (You can jump over, teleport through, use the Red lady's immunity mode or run with it)
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Kaikordehth
- Telaran
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:17 pm
Re: Boss mechanics
Thanks.
I ran a couple EoA earlier. They were actually guild rather than pug but it was still 'cheesed' as I never saw the ghosts or any moving of the boss past the first immune bubble. The key thing in the runs I did today was that I was the only melee. So its clearly something about being the 2nd melee where the issue is.
Entering melee within the first 3 secs is a problem. The fight is started usually while Im bouncing up the rocks on the left to dodge the trash mobs.
As for TD I'm just gonna have to run it a few times and get used to whats going on in that fight. All groups want to cheeze it by killing the lady first. SO all i gotta remember is if its her button, press after 3 shades, if its green or blue press after the 2 shades kill. I know you said do green goblin next but ill probably forget that in the moment. Dont think anybody gonna kick off at me as long as lady gets done first.
I ran a couple EoA earlier. They were actually guild rather than pug but it was still 'cheesed' as I never saw the ghosts or any moving of the boss past the first immune bubble. The key thing in the runs I did today was that I was the only melee. So its clearly something about being the 2nd melee where the issue is.
Entering melee within the first 3 secs is a problem. The fight is started usually while Im bouncing up the rocks on the left to dodge the trash mobs.
As for TD I'm just gonna have to run it a few times and get used to whats going on in that fight. All groups want to cheeze it by killing the lady first. SO all i gotta remember is if its her button, press after 3 shades, if its green or blue press after the 2 shades kill. I know you said do green goblin next but ill probably forget that in the moment. Dont think anybody gonna kick off at me as long as lady gets done first.
Re: Boss mechanics
Yes that will do just fine.
(I may even twisted green and blue there nobody cares about them.)
You can unlock your action bar and drag temporary abilities on your bar for later use.
You can also slap them into macros.
That allows for a macro with 25 random seasonal event mob target commands or "common raid reactives".
So your red summon can be the same button as "tar isiel" without clicking or delays.
Etc
The 3rd boss 3second rule is a very special case for let's say Riftblades. I have also never seen anyone else using it.
Having the dot as second melee on exploit strats only means nobody is paying attention or cates to save you. Best to go in carefully and if nobody reacts, walk out and watch. If they then also skip ghosts- ergo platforms, it's not your problem.
May simply ride ahead and kill the 2-3 Ahnkets before the last boss. They can drop a belt (shrug).
(I may even twisted green and blue there nobody cares about them.)
You can unlock your action bar and drag temporary abilities on your bar for later use.
You can also slap them into macros.
That allows for a macro with 25 random seasonal event mob target commands or "common raid reactives".
So your red summon can be the same button as "tar isiel" without clicking or delays.
Etc
The 3rd boss 3second rule is a very special case for let's say Riftblades. I have also never seen anyone else using it.
Having the dot as second melee on exploit strats only means nobody is paying attention or cates to save you. Best to go in carefully and if nobody reacts, walk out and watch. If they then also skip ghosts- ergo platforms, it's not your problem.
May simply ride ahead and kill the 2-3 Ahnkets before the last boss. They can drop a belt (shrug).